Hydraulic thrust bearing ?

[stylussprinter]

Who out there has a hydraulic clutch within the M2 Escort bellhousing . i.e. no actuation arm , just pipes to the hydraulic bearing Reason I ask is that I intend using Tim's floor peddle set and cutting out the pendulum ones to give me a better driving position . While I'm about it , as the engine's out , I'd like to change from cable to hydraulic clutch.
Plenty of them on the market but don't want to refit the engine only to find it doesn't work due to wrong movement distance or whatever ? So it's ZETEC to Capri T9 box , via M2 Escort BH that I need the info on --------- don't tell me I'm the only silly bugger doing it


Otherwise it looks like I'll be the one to find out the hard way Rob.

[Bikenuts]

Looks like your the first on this site. You've probably already tried them but Burton Power do a load of hyd clutch bits and have always been very helpful and knowledgable when I've spoken to them. You could try asking the same question on the locost site too a lot more people on there and not so locost in a lot of cases

Matt

[stylussprinter]

Thanks , good idea . Rob.

[Schrodinger]

You could try
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/
There are a lot of people on there using hydro clutches

[Pete&Matt]

in the latest kit car mag there is a clutch specialist in there who does them and offers advise. I will be calling them on Wednesday to enquire about the same thing for our 4age engine and ford box as its all a bit tight in there! i will let you know what i find!

[stylussprinter]

I haven't bought one since finishing my car apart from maybe the odd one to read a specific article. Same as shows , I went to Stoneleigh , Exeter , Sandown then lost the interest once I'd finished it.
I've seen all the options but none actually tell you that this or that combination of 3 parts are correct for Quaife Clubmans Capri T9 TO zetec via RS2000 alloy bell housing. Closest I've got so far is that the SAAB type from TITON is the one BUT no guarruntee the actuation is the right length
REALLY --- do not want to connect everything in the engine bay only to find it needs machining off or larger adapter

Werner pointed me to a new Saab type at sensible £? but I need to know it definately goes with the other 2 bits for my application SO didn't buy it thanks anyway Werner

Rob(busy on Stylus number 2 at the moment )

[Oldbo]

Rob,

I have a concentric hydraulic clutch cylinder on my Stylus. In my case I used a Saab 99/900 concentric slave cylinder with an adaptor / spacer made up to take the place of the type 9 front seal housing. The trick is to get the spacer depth correct and to make sure that the slave piston is not able to pop out at the end of its stroke. This was achieved by fitting a travel restrictor on the clutch pedal. When I did all this I contacted Eddy McClement who was building a Locost using a Saab cylinder. The following notes are from Eddy -

"The method I (and others) used to determine the right thickness for the Saab cylinder-to-bellhousing adapter is as follows:-

1. Mount the gearbox to the engine with a worn-out clutch plate and cover in place. Through the hole in the side of the bellhousing (where the clutch actuating arm normally lives) mark the position of the spring "fingers" against the release bearing guide tube that sits over the input shaft.

2. repeat step 1 with a brand new clutch plate and cover. Because it'll be a lot thicker, you'll find the clutch springs compress a lot more and the "fingers" are further up the release bearing guide.

3. Measure your Saab slave cylinder and work out the starting point of its travel. The key point to note is that when the clutch is worn out, it shouldn't bear on the release bearing continually. I just made my adapter plate so that there was leeway at both ends of the travel. You also need to be sure that you're not going to pop the piston out at the other end of its travel, so fit a clutch pedal stop.

My pedal is probably about 5:1 in ratio - a little over 200mm from bottom pivot to foot pad, and 40mm from bottom pivot to clutch actuating rod clevis pin pivot. The master cylinder is a .700 inch bore Wilwood - all my master cylinders came from Rally Design, but I had ordered Girling and the sent Wilwood. I wasn't complaining. The Saab clutch slave cylinder came from Euro Car Parts and is for (I think) a Saab 99. Whatever, the part numbers you need are:-
cylinder is 4776308
bearing is 8721995"

I followed Eddy's general advice and threw in a few adaptions of my own. The system seems to work well. l made up a spread sheet to help calculate the slave and master cylinder travels.

[stylussprinter]

H'mmmmm , this is beginning to sound tricky . I'd like to know before it's all bolted up. I may well end up using cable as before if I can't get definite dimensions. When my engine returns from Dunnell it'll have the new ceramic clutch already in place. --- We'll see

Rob.

[stylussprinter]

Ok ---------- I've ordered the bits for my hydraulic clutch from BURTONS but the info for calculation of the spacer required came via RACELINE 's Pete McKewan He couldn't provide me with a kit as he uses only FORD stuff for which he's had bellhousing's made to suit . BUT he did tell me what I needed to know --- in his words '' it's not rocket science mate ''

I thought others may want this info at some point so here's the proceedure ----------
1) measure the distance from the engine block face TO the gearbox bolting face(not the cover plate) This will be the bellhousing plus any spacers/gaskets you're using. In my case this is 180mm.
2)measure the distance from the engine block face TO the clutch cover fingers . In my case this is 91mm. Then add 5mm to account for clutch wear so's the clutch will never be parcially depressed . Total = 96mm.
3)180mm minus 96mm = 84mm (this is the exact length your new cover plate + hydraulic actuator + release bearing must be .
4)Now you can order the parts ------------- simply ask the supplier what his 3 components total length is when together In my case from BURTONS it was 72mm . We already know the exact length required from (3) SO --------- 84mm minus 72mm = 12mm spacer needed (or as close as you can get from their choice of spacers THEN machine it to the correct length ------------- BINGO sorted
In my case the spacer closest is 12.7mm .
Finally , once it's fitted , depress the clutch just enough to engage all gears then adjust the clutch pedal stop to suit OR you might end up taking the engine out again to refit the piston In my case I've put a long bolt into the footwell with locknuts in front of the clutch pedal .

THIS is what I've been searching for ------ a nice simple formula Well done and thanks Pete at RACELINE and he didn't even make a sale to me

I hope this may be usefull to others in the future . Rob.